How the chiropractor performs lumbar spine adjustments in this free alternative medicine video. Expert: Brian Renner Bio: Brian Renner graduated from Palmer College of Chiropractic in Iowa. He is currently practicing in Fontana, California at the Southridge Chiropractic Center. Filmmaker: Nili Nathan
Video 1 - Prevent Spinal Decay
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#1 by phileustace on July 16th, 2010
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What does a chiropractor do ??
Short Answer = Nothing
#2 by Goatoftheforest on July 16th, 2010
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Please don’t post a comment if your a homophobic redneck with an IQ below 80, thanks : )
#3 by ospreylookout on July 16th, 2010
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@ospreylookout Excuse me, “syntax”. Please pardon the typo in my first sentence.
#4 by ospreylookout on July 16th, 2010
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@mliebich85 Your suntax is somewhat confusing. Can you explain specifically how the article that I have provided (along with quote from author, who is a chiro) “is fitting to exactly what you were complaining about earlier; a lack of evidence”? It is not intended as “evidence” of anything but rather, is offered as a commentary from within your profession, that the basic premise of chiro, namely, “subluxation”, is bogus.
#5 by ospreylookout on July 16th, 2010
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@mliebich85 It is not the pubic or the audience at hand that is burdened with proving that what you are saying is false, but it is most surely your profession that is obligated to provide the evidence for the claims it makes. You sound to me like a very young, naive person who has been indoctrinated by the bs promoted by the local chiro college. It is sad that you will face an enormous student loan debt and have nothing but spinal manips in your future for a very long time.
#6 by ospreylookout on July 17th, 2010
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@mliebich85 If you wish not to entertain or humour the argument, then why do so? You have already said this once and yet here you are repeating yourself. I am not Googling random crap, as you say, but even if I were, so what? This issue is in the lack of evidence that the chiro profession has at its disposal to support any claims made, and more importantly, its lack of interest in conducting high quality research.
#7 by mliebich85 on July 17th, 2010
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@ospreylookout As I mentioned, I will not humor your argument anymore. Not only are you now just googling some random crap found on the internet. But the articles that you are refering to is fitting to exactly what you were complaining about earlier; a lack of evidence.
#8 by ospreylookout on July 17th, 2010
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@mliebich85 The chiropractic profession has an obligation to actively divorce itself from metaphysical explanations of health and disease as well as to actively regulate itself in refusing to tolerate fraud, abuse and quackery, which are more rampant in chiropractic than in other healthcare professions (Foreman SM Stahl MJ: Chiropractors disciplined by state chiropractic board and a comparison with disciplined medical physicians. J Manipulative Physiol Ther 2004, 27(7):472-476).
#9 by ospreylookout on July 17th, 2010
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@mliebich85 The only thing that has been asked of you is to provide the evidence for the effectiveness of the claims that are made by the chiro profession. Had you simply focussed on that, we could debate the lack of that evidence. Instead, you avoid this topic altogether and refer to “wellness care”, without explaining what that means. No one argues against prevention. Everyone hates dishonesty.
#10 by ospreylookout on July 17th, 2010
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@mliebich85 Tell me about this idea of “maintaining a healthy nerve supply to every cell, tissue and organ”. How do you accomplish this whith spinal manipulation? Have ever provided a reasonable scientific explanation to explain this claim? Is this what you refer to as “vitalism”? There has NEVER been a single sentence from legitimate sources that support this. Perhaps you mean FAITH HEALING?
#11 by ospreylookout on July 17th, 2010
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@mliebich85 There is nothing wrong with health promotion. Where the problem lies is in the claims that chiros make that this “wellness care” is effective in the treatment of conditons when no evidenc eexists, nor any effort to do the research. How about when your kid is diagnosed with leukemia…are you going to provide him with wellness care and not let him see an oncologist? What the heck is “wellness care”?
#12 by mliebich85 on July 17th, 2010
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@ospreylookout Also, there is a reason why we call it wellness care. It is centered around keeping people as healthy as possible and maintaining a healthy nerve supply to every cell, tissue and organ in the body thus enabling people to heal without medical intervention. Obviously, if a get hit by a bus, wellness care will not help me. Thus separating the difference between emergency situations and preventative care.
#13 by mliebich85 on July 17th, 2010
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@ospreylookout Well, I will end this debate by saying yes, I have taken many courses in statistics, which is why I know how many different tests can be used to alter the results and whether or not something is statistically significant. Also, I do not humor debates centered around attacks. Not only are you being immature, you’re discrediting everything you say as a result of this immaturity. Maybe you need to take a course in public speaking.
#14 by ospreylookout on July 17th, 2010
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@mliebich85 And just to finish on your point of why you would tell me to somehow survey hospital patients….as if this would legitimize chiro???? Wow, fuzzy logic must be a course they teach you as well! OK, so, I guess you include the parents of the preemies who take home an infant as opposed to parents whose child died for lack of modern medical intervention? Sure, you’ve saved how many lives? QUACKERY!
#15 by ospreylookout on July 17th, 2010
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@mliebich85 If you can humour me for a sec. Your previous comment is a bit confusing, but it does seem to demonstrate that you are willing to mix apples and camels to prove your point. Your “challenge” to survey “patients” of their “health status” does not rule out that they might have done many things outside of your control. How can you attribute that to your treatment? (See why I asked you if you had ever taken a research methods course?).
#16 by ospreylookout on July 17th, 2010
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@mliebich85 When you claim that “life is not about large population studies”, what purpose are large population studies if not to show whether something works or does not work? How else can one rule in or out confounding variables? Have you EVER taken a course in statistics? How about research methodology? My dog lady (let me assume), are you serious? But, the point is, why is it that other professions like PT have conducted research and now adopt “evidence-based practice”?
#17 by mliebich85 on July 17th, 2010
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@ospreylookout So maybe you are educated…..or you sit behind your computer all day and don’t open your eyes to the world. Just to let you know, life is not about large population based studies. I would next challenge you to go to a high volume chiropractic office and ask patients where their health status was before they walked in the doors, and where it is now? I also challenge you to go to a hospital and try the same. Let me know the results, I guarantee you will be enlightened.
#18 by ospreylookout on July 17th, 2010
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@mliebich85 I wonder if you can wrap a little bit of context around your statement, “..you obviously don’t know about the importance of the nervous system in the fact that it controls everything in your entire body”? How do you know how much I know about the nervous system for you to make that statement? You assume what, that I couldn’t possible know more than you do? Attributing the nervous system to physiological processes is hardly a unique conclusion, is it? D’uh.
#19 by ospreylookout on July 17th, 2010
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@mliebich85 Mirtz et al, Chiropractic & Osteopathy 2009, 17:13. There is a significant lack of evidence in the literature to fulfill Hills criteria of causation as regards chiropractic subluxation. No supportive evidence is found for the chiropractic subluxation being associated with any disease process or of creating suboptimal health conditions requiring intervention. Regardless of popular appeal this leaves the subluxation construct in the realm of unsupported speculation.
#20 by ospreylookout on July 17th, 2010
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@mliebich85 : First off, case studies mean absolutely NOTHING in epidemiology, and if you are claiming to be a health professional, you should know this. Second, the findings that you refer to, out of Uof Illinois, do you know how large that study was? How can you claim that ONE STUDY using 25 subjects is conclusive of anything? Are you an idiot? What kind of education do you have? Try taking a stats course and doing some good research before you jump on the band wagon!.
#21 by mliebich85 on July 17th, 2010
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@ospreylookout
You must have overlooked all of the research articles on chiropractic and how it does work. For example, the effects of an atlas adjustment on blood pressure conducted by University of Illinois Chicago. You must have also overlooked all of the case studies. Not to mention, you obviously don’t know about the importance of the nervous system in the fact that it controls everything in your entire body. Do a little more homework before you make comments.
#22 by TerrySleeper on July 17th, 2010
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Try it.
It works.
#23 by ospreylookout on July 17th, 2010
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The funny thing is that using critical thinking skills is frowned upon by these snake-oil salesmen. They prey on the gullible, uneducated public who don’t ask the hard questions (evidence?). Health care is a lifestyle choice and people should need to consult with a chiro, paying big bucks, to be told what they should already be doing. And this scientific fantasy-land of “subluxation” and “vitalism”, is reflective of a profession without grounding in the 21st Century.
#24 by davseb222 on July 17th, 2010
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he’s looking for heat, LOL- try her gash!!
#25 by UFB85 on July 17th, 2010
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Homophobic prick